Posts by Teary Oberon

111

How Have you Counted your time for Pioneering?

by jehu or jehonadab in

just woundering how have you counted your time in field service especially if you were pioneering?.

would like to see if any of you were on the same page as i was.

with so much to do, like reading all the watchtower and awake each month and the bible reading each week.

Teary Oberon

Even that is not a very clear term.

"Thus, the milieu of control identified...consisting of behavioral control, mental control, emotional control, and information control cannot, in every case and as a matter of principle, be characterized as “manipulative.” Control of these areas of action is an inevitable component of social interactions in a group or community. The social control that is always associated with intense commitment to a group must therefore be clearly distinguished from exertion of intentional, methodical influence for the express purpose of manipulation." -- Final Report of the Enquete Commission on "So-called Sects and Psychogroups" New Religious and Ideological Communities and Psychogroups in the Federal Republic of Germany

"Malony argues, with the mass of social and psychological literature to back him up, that "social influence" occurs. That while he personally (along with the entire field of clinical psychology) aims at producing individuals with strong egos, capable of individual self-determination, he cannot escape the fact that none of us can escape from the effects of personal interactions with others and social organizations (from nations to families) to which we belong. There is no act that is totally autonomous. That people have the privilege and responsibility to determine their life for themselves, complete self-determination is at best a heuristic goal. At times, individuals make decisions which most (family members, neighbors, friends, fellow employees) consider unwise, including the choice to join an unpopular religious organization.” -- Brainwashing and the Cults, Rise and Fall of a Theory

111

How Have you Counted your time for Pioneering?

by jehu or jehonadab in

just woundering how have you counted your time in field service especially if you were pioneering?.

would like to see if any of you were on the same page as i was.

with so much to do, like reading all the watchtower and awake each month and the bible reading each week.

Teary Oberon

From the Brief Amicus Curiae of the American Psychological Association, in The Supreme Court of the State of California, February 10, 1987:

87

“Amici will demonstrate that a strong consensus of relevant professional opinion supports the trial court's decision to exclude the proffered testimony of Drs. Singer and Benson because that testimony did not meet these standards of general acceptance in the scientific community. The theories of Drs. Singer and Benson are not new to the scientific community. After searching scrutiny, the scientific community has repudiated the assumptions, methodologies, and conclusions of Drs. Singer and Benson. The validity of the claim that, absent physical force or threats, "systematic manipulation of the social influences" can coercively deprive individuals of free will lacks any empirical foundation and has never been confirmed by other research. (Point I.B.) The specific methods by which Drs. Singer and Benson have arrived at their conclusions have also been rejected by all serious scholars in the field. (Point I.C.)” (15)

111

How Have you Counted your time for Pioneering?

by jehu or jehonadab in

just woundering how have you counted your time in field service especially if you were pioneering?.

would like to see if any of you were on the same page as i was.

with so much to do, like reading all the watchtower and awake each month and the bible reading each week.

Teary Oberon

"Well Teary....I am not an atheist...but in this instance I would be inclined to agree with the atheists you use an example. They may have a point."

So you are saying that parents should have no right to teach their children the religious faith of their choosing?

"Are you trying to tell me that JW's are NOT a mind controlling cult?"

No, Teary is saying that using the term "mind control cult" is disengenuous, because there really isn't any such thing as "mind control" (those theories were largest invalidated back in the 80's). It is not really a technical term for anything in particular -- it is simply a pejorative, in the same category as "that stupid, make-believe religion that I don't agree with."

111

How Have you Counted your time for Pioneering?

by jehu or jehonadab in

just woundering how have you counted your time in field service especially if you were pioneering?.

would like to see if any of you were on the same page as i was.

with so much to do, like reading all the watchtower and awake each month and the bible reading each week.

Teary Oberon

"it is unfortunate for that child if the parent happens to belong to a mind controlling cult"

Singer's mind control theories were debunked back in the 80's. You should get with the times. The rest of your assertions are just value judgments on your part, which don't mean much from a factual point of view. Teary knows people who would also say that it is cruel and unethical to raise a child as Jewish. He also knows people who would say that it is cruel and unethical to raise a child as a Mormon, Catholic, Muslim, Baptist, ect. It is all rather relative. You know atheists make the argument that is is harmful for parents to raise their childen in ANY religion.

111

How Have you Counted your time for Pioneering?

by jehu or jehonadab in

just woundering how have you counted your time in field service especially if you were pioneering?.

would like to see if any of you were on the same page as i was.

with so much to do, like reading all the watchtower and awake each month and the bible reading each week.

Teary Oberon

No, you got that mixed up. It is:

Nobody who lies, fakes time and falsifies records has any business dedicating 70 hours to the preaching work, or doing any preaching at all for that matter.

111

How Have you Counted your time for Pioneering?

by jehu or jehonadab in

just woundering how have you counted your time in field service especially if you were pioneering?.

would like to see if any of you were on the same page as i was.

with so much to do, like reading all the watchtower and awake each month and the bible reading each week.

Teary Oberon

Parents have the natural right to teach their kids as they see fit and to guide them in the path that they choose until the child is old enough to decide for himself/herself whether to stay on that path or find a new one.

So you really cannot criticize a parent for trying to instill a certain religious faith in their child -- it is their prerogative as the ones who gave life to that child in the first place.

87

Watchtower STUDY EDITION - Vehicle for Vitriol and REALLY crazy statements?

by punkofnice in

is it me or do i notice that all the weird and hateful cultish statements are now appearing in the 'study edition' washtowels?.

anointed are nuts - august 15, 2011 watchtower (the study edition) pg 22 qfr: memorial partakers.

this is the number.

Teary Oberon

"So you're partially autistic? You just acknowledged you suffer from a mental illness, just like I do. How can you possibly be any more "rational and objective" than I am?"

Because Teary chose to accept his weakness and turn it into a strength. He abandoned his emotions and attachments to people a long time ago, and instead focused his extreme obession on his studies and writing (currently he is just a hand full of classes away from his Bachelors in Civil Engineering).

But it seems like you are still highly emotional and wishy washy. That is too bad :(

"you've just declared yourself a liability to the organization, which is none too fond of attempts at apologeticism that don't come from the top. You've ignored a lot of their warnings already. Are you not aware of this?"

Teary is no such thing (he doesn't even claim to be a part of that organization), and they say no such thing about apologetics (they just recently quoted the JWSTRS research site in their October and November Watchtowers). What they mainly say not to do is to set up competing websites that steps on the toes of the official site and performs the same basic functions.

"Good luck. You're gonna need it, buddy."

The Witnesses don't believe in luck

87

Watchtower STUDY EDITION - Vehicle for Vitriol and REALLY crazy statements?

by punkofnice in

is it me or do i notice that all the weird and hateful cultish statements are now appearing in the 'study edition' washtowels?.

anointed are nuts - august 15, 2011 watchtower (the study edition) pg 22 qfr: memorial partakers.

this is the number.

Teary Oberon

"I call BS. If congregations are found to be ordering extra magazines they're going to get a good "talking to" by the CO when he comes. The current arrangement is that the study issues are just like the Kingdom Ministry. The congregation orders the number it needs and NO MORE. A visitor can look on with someone else if they choose, or maybe a slacker JW didn't get theirs yet and there's an extra or two lying around in back, BUT THAT'S NOT THE PROPER THEOCRATIC ARRANGEMENT."

Congregations are supposed to have some extras on hand during the Sunday lesson, and if they don't have actual magazines then they will normally just scan some copies on the copy machine (that has always been the arangement). That is why the attendents will often stand at the back with those extra copies in hand and bring one to anybody who is in need.

111

How Have you Counted your time for Pioneering?

by jehu or jehonadab in

just woundering how have you counted your time in field service especially if you were pioneering?.

would like to see if any of you were on the same page as i was.

with so much to do, like reading all the watchtower and awake each month and the bible reading each week.

Teary Oberon

"at least until you can build enough strength to abandon family and friends for honesty."

Sometimes being honest with yourself is the most difficult thing in the world, but it is still the right thing to do. Jesus himself said that his followers needed to be prepared to lose family and friends and mothers and brothers if they chose to follow him and seek out the truth.

Do you think that his original, first century disciples would really stoop so low that they would profess to be followers of Jesus while secretly 'pretending' to be on the side of the local Pharisees or opposers of Jesus, just so they wouldn't lose family and friends? Absurd. I am sure that Jesus would have had some choice words for people like that =P

111

How Have you Counted your time for Pioneering?

by jehu or jehonadab in

just woundering how have you counted your time in field service especially if you were pioneering?.

would like to see if any of you were on the same page as i was.

with so much to do, like reading all the watchtower and awake each month and the bible reading each week.

Teary Oberon

"Teary....Why do you think it is so important that ANYONE should be honest to such a dishonest cult? People were obviously making the best of a bad situation."

We are not talking about being honest or dishonest with the organization, we are talking about being honest with YOURSELF and with your GOD, who you make your vows to. Ethics and honesty are a matter of personal principles and values. Being honest with the organization comes in third, but that still hinges on the first two (you can't really do any without doing them all).

If you cannot fulfill your vows, then don't make them in the first place. If you think that the organziation is a lying 'cult,' then don't dedicate or report any time (one who believes that but still takes part in the Witness preaching work is also not being honest with himself).